This Stays Between Us

This Stays Between Us... Are You Elphaba or Glinda?

• Riss & Chrys • Season 1 • Episode 24

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We laugh through a chaotic sound bath, survive hot yoga, and use Wicked to unpack conformity, propaganda, and what it means to be “good.” The talk turns from wellness mishaps to moral complexity, boundaries, and why storytelling sometimes changes minds better than arguments.

• awkward sound bath, cacao ritual, salt cave vibes 
• fueling and dizziness lessons from hot yoga 
• aging bodies, mobility, sciatica, practical recovery 
• Glinda vs Elphaba as approval vs conviction 
• popularity as power and palatability 
• propaganda, groupthink, and blind authority 
• no one is a villain in their own story 
• grace with boundaries, emotional intelligence 
• storytelling and art as soft power for change


SPEAKER_01:

Perfect. I don't feel like this is so far, but I feel like it might be fine.

unknown:

Hello.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello, hello, hello.

SPEAKER_01:

I think we're gonna catch.

SPEAKER_03:

Alright, it has been so long since we have recorded another podcast, but we're back at it and better than ever. Better than ever. Um we yeah. Let's start that over. Let's start that over. That was so bad.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, welcome back to our podcast, The Stays Between Us.

SPEAKER_03:

And what a welcome back it is.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably been like six months or something. It's been a while, but we are committed and back at it, and we've changed format a little bit.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. We're gonna be talking about maybe going into like deeper, going more in depth in the topics that we talk about. Um and we're just gonna be chatting. This is casual, so you know, sit back, drink your drink, or drive your car. Whatever it is you do.

SPEAKER_00:

But make sure the drink they are drinking is okay to drink while you're driving.

SPEAKER_03:

Or that they are separate activities. We do not endorse we're still nefai. Yeah. Um okay, let's just get into it.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

I have been begging you to go to yoga with me for so long, and we finally did it. We finally did it this morning. What did you think?

SPEAKER_00:

It was good. I you know it's funny. I've had a very like spiritual week, if you can call it that. I went to sound bath on Tuesday, and then today's yoga.

SPEAKER_03:

I've I've actually been so curious about sound baths.

SPEAKER_00:

It wasn't what I was expecting. Well, first it wasn't what I was expecting because I heard sound bath and I'm like, are we bathing with other people? Or like, what?

SPEAKER_03:

Why are we listening to people bathing? Yeah, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00:

And one of my friends invited me to it. Well, it was kind of funny because she she does massages for a living, and one of her clients was throwing an event that was supposed to be like a sound bath thing, and she invited me to go to it a couple weeks ago. And then the day out, she was like, actually, I was supposed to reserve a spot and I forgot, but I still want to do a sound bath. And so we just ended up getting tickets to a place called Centered Stone, I think. Um we went and it was interesting. It was um, I don't know, we're talking about a totally different experience that we were talking about yoga, but I'll tell you about that.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I won't I want to know about I I asked what it's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to know.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell you all of that. So the pregame. We got there. One, I will say, having the name Crystal at one of those places makes me very popular because she asked for my name. I said Crystal, and she's like, Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03:

They got the wrong impression of you.

SPEAKER_00:

Now they're like, this chick is hippie, through. We got her. She's gonna sign a subscription, she's gonna do all the things. Um, kind of interesting. So this guy kind of introduced himself. It he said that he doesn't do like the like traditional instruments for soundbath, which he definitely didn't. What I Googled before was like these cups. You did your research. Well, because I was like, what's what should I wear to a soundbath? Is it like a bathing suit?

SPEAKER_03:

What are we wearing? I'm hoping we're wearing something. Is there a group chat? Are we coordinating?

SPEAKER_00:

Any details to feel comfortable? Um, yeah, so it usually it sounds like it's like these bowls or whatever, and they're like making sounds with it. It wasn't that at all. Um I think specifically because the instructor is a little bit outside of the box, whatever, when he was introducing himself, he was like an outside of the box sound bath instructor.

SPEAKER_03:

That is that's like triple outside of the box. It's like outside of the box twice removed.

SPEAKER_00:

I will say the vibe was a little bit like he went in his drunk junk drawer at home and just grabbed a bunch of stuff and he was just like it was still relaxing, but yeah, he like had different instruments.

SPEAKER_03:

So it's like is it like you guys all kind of sit in a room and just listen? You're laying down, sitting, just like a listening so for an hour?

SPEAKER_00:

A few different things before we went in. He was like, There's this like um cacao drink that we're gonna have before we go in, and it's from his company. And I was like, Okay, so not every room today.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, let me watch you drink it first.

SPEAKER_00:

And like the cups laid out and was like, everyone grab a cup and like hold it in your hand, feel the warmth, close your eyes, smell it, and I'm like, what is it turns into one of those like Oshwaganda?

SPEAKER_03:

Is that what it's called? I don't even know. Those like trips that you go, you know, you go into the Amazon and it's like a whole bunch of people in a circle drinking the tea.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's how you were trying to sell it, but he was like, Yeah, just take a small sip. He's he did say like it's gonna smell like hot chocolate. The vibe is kind of hot chocolate, but it's probably not gonna taste like that. It's a little bit more bitter, earthy. And I like had a sip of it and it was like mud, and everyone's like taking deep breaths, and I'm like trying not to joke today. Like Tarot is like going frog lip.

SPEAKER_03:

What kind of mushrooms were in that thing?

SPEAKER_00:

There's five different kinds of mushrooms.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm like, one may be not edible.

unknown:

I know.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, cool. He said, I don't know. He's like, Yeah, there's a kind of different kinds of mushrooms.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you have to sign a waiver before? No, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I think they weren't like those kinds of mushrooms, but he also didn't say it's just kind of like mushrooms. I'm like, can you drive home?

SPEAKER_03:

Is it like microdosed?

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00:

We were giv this is probably a lawsuit. I don't know. There was no information, it was just like, let's drink this. Oh, by the way, there's mushrooms, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, I actually started um drinking some mushroom just like lion's mane, like a supplement that I add to a drink in the morning, whatever I drink in the morning.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I have felt no effects yet. But I think that's considered my codosing.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Look, I think the only kind of mushrooms I had had before were like portobello. So I was like, okay. And I don't know. I mean, I don't know what it's supposed to be, but he had us drink the whole thing. He like waited until everyone drank the whole thing, and I was like, I might need a special.

SPEAKER_03:

Is there a bathroom?

SPEAKER_00:

Can I wash it down with those?

SPEAKER_03:

Is there a bathroom nearby? I can wash it down.

SPEAKER_00:

Seriously. Um, but they have like a this was really interesting actually. They had like a full what they call like a salt cave, and it's a room, and I don't I don't really know all the ins and outs of it, but basically, like they said that it was shooting like salt water from the walls or something, or like whatever the wall was was made out of like salt something. I will say I did feel like it's kind of like being at the beach, like you can breathe in the salt, and like you're breathing a little bit better, like your sinuses kind of like clear up.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00:

So it was kind of interesting. They had yoga mats at the front, and then they had these, I forgot what they call them, but they're like just like lounge chairs pretty much that you can lean back. Um, there weren't like there wasn't like a ton of people there, so like everyone I think got a chair, and we just lean back. They gave us like blankets, and just lay there, and the guy brought out this like tower made of like PVC pipes, and then he had these other pipes that he was hanging on it, and like I listened to like brown noise or like white noise while I fall asleep, so like I get like there's like a frequency thing that can help calm your mind. So it was like relaxing. I will say that it was a little less relaxing that he was doing multiple of them at the same time, and they were probably not the usual instruments that you use, and so they didn't really go together that great.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's like you're just I felt like at first I'm like, oh, this is kind of relaxing, and then he had a few other ones.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm like, okay, this is a distracting because it's like Yeah, it's like too many noises, and like not harmonizing together.

SPEAKER_00:

It wasn't like enough to give me a headache, but it was like too many different things, and so he's doing that, and then he grabs like a little drum thing, and then he's like drumming that this was kind of interesting, I don't know. He was like drumming like on top of people, like to get energy out.

unknown:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

But I was like, cool, very expensive class, like 40 bucks for this, but still, like okay. Um, interesting. I don't know. He did that for an hour, uh, pretty much almost the whole time. It was it was like relaxing, and I was just like laying there and then.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's a fun job for him.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, and he just had like music in the background too, along with it. So I'm like, oh I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

So it was was it would you say it was like mostly just like a relax like a very relaxing experience?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I like I hope this is not offensive to anybody, but I'm not a very like heavily on the hippie side, you know. I'm very much like a skeptic, like yeah, through and through. Like I'm very much like this isn't gonna work. Yeah, I like cannot relax my mind. I'm like stiff all the time. So like it's good for relaxing, but like the last like 10 minutes, he well, one, he got this like cool like hand pan out that was like it looked like a UFO. That's the best way I can describe it.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, you see, I yeah, like kind of like indents around it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00:

Anyway, he didn't know how to play, he had just got it was very obvious because he just got this on Sunday. I'm like, we can tell. But he was just like it didn't really like it was just kind of noise, I guess. But then at the end he makes it all like sit up and he's like, Does anyone want to share an experience they've had? And like everyone was kind of quiet. Maybe they're shy, maybe they're like me, and they're like, No, like I just relax for a second, like I don't know. And he's like, Well, in past classes, some people have been visited by the their ancestors, and like there was this one guy that had a blood clot, and like the next day he didn't because of the frequency, and I'm like, Okay, he lost me.

SPEAKER_01:

So this is turning into a cult.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I'm like, okay, you can't believe something like that.

SPEAKER_03:

You almost had me took it a step too far.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because like again, like it's relaxing and whatever, and then he has yeah, like some people have like visions and ideas, and he's like, There's this one time I was in the class, like, and some people believe in it. I don't want to be disrespectful. I I don't believe in it. I think it's like, okay, guy, okay, cool. Like you've been banging this pipe for an hour, yeah. Like now I trust you with my help.

unknown:

I don't know, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, he just didn't put enough of whatever shrooms he was on in your guys'.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, he had he had 10 in his drink. He only gave us five, so we was we were off base, but yeah, he was just saying he was like, There's this one class where there's this I was he was banging the drum or whatever on top of someone, and he felt that he should do it on like her right leg or her left leg or something, one of her legs, and so he did it over it a few times, and at the end of the class, he's like, This is so random, but like, is there something wrong with your like right leg? And she was like, I fell the other day, and it's all bruised, but it was covered by her clothing, so he couldn't tell.

SPEAKER_02:

It's like her leg is like in a cast. It's like I felt something might be wrong with it.

SPEAKER_00:

She came in holding a balloon that said get well soon, like with a cast, and he's like, Are you ill?

SPEAKER_01:

She came rolling in her wheelchair.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like, come on, guy. Yeah, but then like everyone, it's kind of like groupthink, and everyone feels compelled to because I mean what I he like kind of pointed out at me at one point, and I was like, Well, like I listened to like white noise, it was relaxing, and like it's nice to like try to be present and like yeah, erase like the to-do list from your brain. That's kind of what it did for me, and I was like, or ish, and I was trying to accomplish that. But some other people are like, Oh, like it gave me an idea about this, it gave me whatever for like energy for the week, and like this is meant to be, and I was like, uh, okay. Anyway, that sounds familiar, but it was a little a little strange, you know, a little hallelujah moment. I don't know, but yeah, so very relaxing week to go from that to yoga. I will say yoga was more interesting. I haven't done yoga in a long time. Last time I did yoga was at like the shark yoga at the aquarium. You know how they do that like twice a year? No, you've been there? No, I haven't. It's cool. They like have the shark aquariums or whatever, and they do the yoga in like that room. So like you're doing yoga with the sharks or whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's fun.

SPEAKER_00:

So those last time so it's been a long time. But and I've been looking for something with like mobility and like to help my back and stuff, and that was great. It was really relaxing.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you feel like it like stretched like what you need? Like it yeah, because one of my favorite things about yoga is you get into these poses and you do these movements that like you don't normally do, like you don't move that part of your body on a regular basis, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's like you think it would feel good, yeah, and then it it does. I will say it felt like again, I'm like maybe it's a victim mentality, I will admit, but I felt like I was like trying to do these moves, and she's like, if it makes you feel better, then do this, and then I try to, and then like I lose my balance and fall, and I could swear I hear I could hear her giggle, like got her. I was trying to get her to fall, and then I made it a little harder, and then she fell.

SPEAKER_03:

She was like every time I looked up, she was staring straight at me.

SPEAKER_00:

Like look directly and then look away and be like, it might be easier, try to do this instead. And I'm like, that was for me. I was like, Don't put so much pressure on your back. I was like, I was it was for me.

SPEAKER_03:

Or when she does like, oh try this movement. If you want to go harder, do this. But if you're a total loser and you can't do anything right, I'm not gonna get back up.

SPEAKER_02:

You can't do it, your body doesn't move that way anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

Try something easier, something that maybe a child would be able to do. Actually, children are so flexible.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh no, I will say also the names of the poses. I I'm not like super familiar with all the things, but it's like we're gonna do the cat doing the dishes now. Ready? I'm like, I need to look up. I don't know what you're about to do. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And then they're like, oh, like this, and like hold up, how is she okay? And then you try to do the same thing. I don't know. It's like a lot of I need to, it's just me being ignorant. I need to learn them, but like the names are very random.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they are very random.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like the backward pigeon, and I'm like, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know what we're doing. It's so funny. It's so funny because like the more you go and like you they just become like it's just what you call it, yeah. It's like second nature. Um, but yeah, like the the downward dog, now the upward dog, now the yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Let's do the goddess. Didn't feel like a goddess doing that one. Just like the quads are kind of weak right now. It was it was intense, it was good. I will say there were several times where like she's like, do this move. I was doing the move, and like this is probably on like a lesson on eating breakfast before class, because I didn't I like brought my protein shake and I didn't have it, but until later. But I was doing the moves and then my vision would get blurry and then small, and I'm like, I cannot pass up. Cannot pass up if I die in a yoga class. Like, I will never like get over that. Like the most embarrassing way to get into heaven is like I'm doing a yoga class, I was doing this the downward dog, I was doing this backward pigeon, and then I died. Backward pigeon. It's like I can't pass out.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, but you didn't probably not you didn't pass out, so that's a win.

SPEAKER_00:

That's probably a less eating breakfast and iron deficiency. I need to take my supplements, but I was very much like a couple times and better.

SPEAKER_03:

If I eat breakfast though before exercise, I it depends on the intensity of the exercise, but doesn't feel good? I do not feel good. It has to be something like I I will say I do have to eat something, but like something very small.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I feel like a banana or like a little bit, like something, just to have like a little bit of something in my system. Yeah, I I didn't have anything, I just like woke up and went and I was very like lightheaded, I feel like.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, one of the it's also really hot in there. Yeah, I love how hot it is, it's I like relaxes everything in me. Yeah, um, but when I was running, I found that one of the most helpful things for me before exercising is eating something really small, like a carb right before. If I eat carb with fat, I will feel sick. Protein won't do very much, but like just a small carb.

SPEAKER_00:

That makes sense for a little bit of energy, just a little boost.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And then sometimes I'll put I'll just mix like a small carb with like a little bit of protein.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean that's where I I try to have like carb right in the morning because I feel like it makes me barrel like super hungry by lunch. If I have like a protein and I'm like still eat, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Usually like it's better to eat protein in the morning because it's like that's what's gonna fuel you. Protein and fat is gonna be better in the morning. Um but before exercise, carb is and I think I don't know how it works, but I think that if you're in the morning, if you eat something really small that's a carb, you're gonna burn that while you're exercising. So then after you eat a protein and protein and fat to really fuel your day.

SPEAKER_00:

That's fair. I'll have to do it next time because I'm not dying. I don't know. I'm gonna blame the lack of balance on that. Yeah, she's yeah, not my muscle shaking. Uncontrollably wasn't that.

SPEAKER_03:

Um she was a new instructor though. I hadn't um I'd never done a class with her.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

She was good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, she was nice. Yeah. Aside from the mocking. She actually wasn't. I'm just kidding. But yeah, she didn't. It just feels like it because you're like, I'm an idiot.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's it's really the negative self-talk in your own head. Um no, but I do I love yoga, and I love like at the very end of the class when you just lay there with like the towel on your face, the cold towel after moving around. That is nice, it's my favorite part.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was very relaxing. And I like the red lights too, it's nice, it's probably really good for you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and again, just like putting your body in through those like different kinds of like stretches and movements. I don't stretch as much as I probably should during the week. I don't remember, and I am feeling myself age, like it is hitting me, and it's like and it's like these slow little things where like I can tell my back is like starting to get a little more stiff than it like has ever been in my life, and so I feel like doing yoga or Pilates or anything like that is helpful for that kind of thing. I wish I was rich enough to do Pilates because Pilates is the bomb. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I feel like having kids aged me way faster because literally it's so embarrassing. Sometimes I'll bend over and my back will lock up like my sides will shoot and I'll fall to the ground. It's it's ridiculous. Even with you when that's happened. It happens a lot. It's getting better because I'm like trying to do stretches, I'm trying to do like mobility stuff, and like I've lost some weight. I'm like trying to exercise and do some weightlifting and like to help, but I mean I still have like sciatica that's like probably gonna be a thing forever, but yeah, it's insane. Like I never thought, like, and it started a few years ago after like Luca after my first one, so like at the ripe age of however old I was 26 or something, just like lock up, and I'm like, okay, I can't get up for five minutes.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, isn't that the worst?

SPEAKER_00:

Insane, yeah, so like debilitating, and I'm like, I'm young, what's happening?

SPEAKER_03:

It's also crazy to think of like our parents complaining about these things, you know, like when we were younger and just being like, get over it, like just shake it off.

SPEAKER_00:

What are you talking about? I literally cannot wait.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's like so hard to imagine that you'll get there, but you get there and it's you feel old and sad.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh, speaking of not caring about things until they happen to you specifically. Our plan was to talk about wicket today.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, and you know what I realized? We got green and pink!

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't even click on it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we are we are ready.

SPEAKER_00:

I will say we're probably both like alpha buzz though. I don't think either of us is a Glinda. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03:

In what way?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know, in every way. Even like from a I don't I don't feel like either of us were ever like super girly. You know? Yeah. I mean there's other issues there too, but like just from like a superficial standpoint, I feel like neither of us is very like delicate.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, okay, delicate. I do think that at least growing up, we were both pretty um, I don't know if like girly, but like singers. Yeah, yeah. How do you say that in English?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03:

Like spoiled isn't the right word.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not also not bratty necessarily. No. It's more like I mean, we always like like to look nice, I think.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we'd we would dress up and um try to look cute. Act better than everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

But we've been in an annoying way. I don't know too much in an annoying way, I feel like. But I don't know. Like girly sense, but not like super girly, like you know, those people that are very much like not that it's a bad thing, necessarily.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm just saying I feel like I don't know, I feel like that we're very much more like I I definitely have friends that are Glindas.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And yeah. And I think it just depends on the room that you're in, though. Sometimes I'm a Glinda, sometimes I'm an alphabet.

SPEAKER_00:

That's fair.

SPEAKER_03:

I say alphabet like it's the alphabet.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I always say wrong. Alphaba? Alphaba, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um but go deep. I do you have like, is it deeper than that, like that we're not Glinda's? Or is it like I mean, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04:

We're good people.

SPEAKER_03:

We're conspiracy theorists.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think I'm we tell poop jokes, we're not glindo.

SPEAKER_03:

True.

SPEAKER_00:

She would never. She would never. Um I don't know. I mean, I feel like in some ways, if we I mean if we're gonna get really deep with it, I feel like in some ways I have been a Glinda, I guess. Like being more worried about being perceived as good rather than actually being good. Not intentionally, but like being more worried about how I'm perceived than actually who I am as a person.

SPEAKER_03:

Which I think is totally normal, but I do think that that weight was definitely on both of us. I I felt that too. Yeah. Um Yeah, of just making sure people see you as being good enough rather than actually trying to have that like internal change.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And not even just yeah. I mean, that but like good enough, but also just actually good. It's like rule follower, good.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like fit the mold. You're not too loud, you're not too whatever, totally law, whatever. Not law abiding, yes, we are.

SPEAKER_03:

We are but I'm saying I always wanted to break the law.

SPEAKER_00:

But more like I I think that's on like also like with like religious, it's like you want to be like perceived as like a good and you're obedient and you're not rocking the boat.

SPEAKER_03:

You feel like your parents have expectations and the the adults around you have expectations, and um like your even your friends, like your social circle has expectations and you want to meet them, right? And you want to be perceived in a certain way. Um but as far as like Glinda goes with like the comparison with Glenda and Alphaba, which one do you feel like you're more like when it when you think of like your upbringing and like social circles?

SPEAKER_00:

That's a very new question. Um I don't know. I feel like I feel like like I said, I think I was more of a Glenda, probably not in the like the static sense necessarily, but like in like my actions, I feel like I've always not that I also wanted to be good, but it was more like I was really worried about what other people thought and really wanted to make sure that I was you know staying in line and trying to make I mean you know this trying to make sure my friends were like doing the things too because it was like I was one of those friends. You're victim number one, but like like feeling like that's what made a good person is like trying to make sure everyone's in line too and you're in line and like I don't know and it's very exhausting. I feel like as I've grown older, I I think I'm still both in a lot of ways, I guess, too. Because I mean you try not to worry about whether people think about you, but like you still do in some in some sense. But I feel like I have grown into more of like a disruptor, not in like a bad way, but in the sense of like being willing to question things and like a critical thinker, and yeah, like why is it this way? How could it be better? Um it's okay to change some like I'm more easily adaptable to things because I'm like I am okay to change my mind. I want to have my mind change, and I'm well like I'm welcoming of like new information. I think I wasn't before. I mean I was like, this is my reality, everything's black and white all the time, yeah, and this is what you do, and whatever. Yeah, and and in so many ways, I think like politically, socially, all of these different things, even just like even with friends, I feel like I used to be more prone to like talk about positive things, and even like in trying to be in relationships, I would try to be like we can only have good memories together, we have to make sure everything is good all the time. And I'm if I'm upset, I'm gonna tell you. And I'm just gonna try to get over it, and we're never gonna have a real conversation ever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that was the everything is pink and rainbows and unicorns and butterflies, at least externally.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, this is what I this is like what uh because I in my head it's like this is what a good person does. Yeah, like don't bother anybody, we don't really like complaining is bad, all these different things, and there's a toxic side to both, I think. But I we're willing to have real conversations, like yeah, if having a hard time, we're willing to talk about it. It's not that comp like I don't know, vulnerability is a good thing, yeah. Like talking about things, and that's how people actually connect with each other. Yeah, so I feel like I identify more with like alphabet at this point in my life because that's who I'm trying to be. Like question things, stand up for other people, worry about issues, even if they don't personally affect me, they still matter because they're affecting someone else. Yeah, like and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

I I think I can act more with that now, I feel like which I think is yeah, I I I feel like there's like a progress of going. I think most people start off as Glinda's and kind of evolve into an alphabet, where it's like I think Glinda kind of represents this um more traditional, like abides by the expectations and the rules of a society and she excels in it, right? Because and that shows through like how popular she is, how um how wealthy her family is, right? Like she exudes um abundance of things because she is very like yeah, she she follows the norm, I guess. Would you agree with that? Like, is that a fair statement?

unknown:

Official.

SPEAKER_03:

I yeah, I get into my sometimes I the way I talk is too like ther therapeutic.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you agree with that? No, I do agree with that. I do think that she's more like traditional. I I do think. Well, back to you, because I want to hear your answer to the other question of how do you feel like you like who do you identify with and like in different areas of your life and what's what's your like origin story?

SPEAKER_03:

I feel like I re my villain origin story.

SPEAKER_00:

Like yeah, like how do you feel like you've swapped between the two and how you get them now?

SPEAKER_03:

Honestly, probably very similar to you. I think I started off very much more like on the Glinda side and I saw a world very black and white. Um I feel like I've I grew up with um with a good amount of friends, like obviously when we were younger there's not that many friends, but um but good friends, but good friends, great friends, um and always very like supported by my family and and I knew what I had to do to get what I needed, you know, and not and not in like a manipulative way or in a in a desperate way, but just like you know you know how the world exists and you know what you have to do and you know how to like follow the steps, right? And then it kind of gets and I think we get to this like part and like adulthood where the steps aren't so clear anymore, and it's like you kind of have to start making your own decisions in in a world of infinite choices, and so I feel like once I started stepping more into that place of kind of making my own decisions without having too much of a structure or a framework around me to make those decisions, I started probably becoming a little more like alphabet, where it's like started questioning the institutions and realizing there's like nuance to things, yeah, yeah. And um and I guess there's like still a mix because I I don't have the background of alphabet of being super excluded from society and being an outcast all the time or anything like that. Um but the her desire to like fight for what is what she believes is right is I like to think that I'm going in that direction, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

That's an interesting point. Um because I mean Alphaba is never not affected by the situation, so it's not necessarily that she cares about issues that don't necessarily affect her. Does that make sense? Like it's always affected her, that's why it's ingrained in her.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, true.

SPEAKER_00:

It didn't have to become like a Lord skill, it was just like her environment.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that way. She knows what it's like to be the outcast and to be um looked down upon, I guess. And then yeah, so then she starts with recognizing the what is it, the animals rights.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's an interesting I hadn't necessarily thought about that, but that makes sense. And I think it also makes us maybe give Glinda a little bit more grace because she hasn't experienced it, so she doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And doesn't understand it.

SPEAKER_03:

I think I honestly think that's one of like I think wicked is just written with a lot of intentionality behind everything. And I think that is oh my gosh, my voice. I think that is one of the beauties where it's like you can you can relate to both characters, um, and empathize with both characters and what they're doing and what they're trying to become.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And and even like the development in both of them as they kind of merge in a lot of ways. Um I think it's interesting to see.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I do too. Yeah, it's it's so like complicated, right? I was for today's podcast, I was looking into Lincoln and trying to like think more about her situation and all these different things. So there's like a she's very she's like so much more complicated than we even give her credit for, and I think it's interesting too because I feel like like you said, like a lot of us have been her at one point or another. Um, I mean at the beginning, um, to be fair, it's been a couple months since I watched the first one. But I just want I watched the second one last night and I won't give too much.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh really? Yeah, don't because I haven't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_00:

And I won't say anything about it. I've seen the play, so like I knew what was gonna happen, but um, but I just focused on like the first part of it, I guess. But she is like a mean girl, really, at the beginning, right? Like she's willing to like I mean, there's a few different situations that I can think of where like in class, like she makes a comment to Alpha about like I can't remember exactly what it was, like compared to her to an asparagus or something. I can't remember talking about she like makes a comment to her, like about her color. Um, she like gives her the ugly hat for the dance, like she's willing to make fun of her, make fun of another person for the laughs for the attention. So she's actually like kind of a villain at the beginning. Um maybe outing myself. I feel like I've been a villain before.

SPEAKER_03:

A hundred percent. I think that if we're all being honest, there are situations that we have been not our best selves, like we've been rude, we've done completely.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, there's so many like different little things I can think of, especially when I was really young. Yeah, we're like, I mean, just random stories. But there was like a girl I was friends with, and she liked this guy, and this other takeaway and kissed him. We were all like eight, I don't know. But it was a long time ago, but like my friend was upset that this girl kissed this guy, and so I was fully be mean to her because I'm like, well, you kissed the crush that my friend had, even though we're all children, and also like not a relationship, but like fully was mean to her for no reason, just because it like made me feel closer to my friend because it was because you were defending her, you were being loyalty, yeah. Yeah, but I'm like totally be mean to another eight-year-old for no reason, really. Yeah, and she didn't even know, she wasn't even friends with her, it wasn't on purpose, it wasn't whatever, you know. Like and like there's so many other situations I can think of where uh like I was fully a villain, and I anyway, but but it is interesting because I mean there's different scenes where I mean at the dance or whatever, when like she sees kind of the situation that she put Alphabet in, and she learns that Alpha like put her neck out for her so she could get in the class or whatever, yeah. Um, and she's like, Oh shoot, this person's willing to show the kindness, and I didn't show her kindness.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so I've always known about Wicked, but I've never uh watched the play or seen like knew the story, and I was really excited to watch the first movie going in completely blind because I was like, this is gonna be a totally like new experience. That scene actually made me cry. I was like, I was in the theater, I was like, that's it's so like that redemption, you know, and um and again I think it's so relatable because we've been we've been that the villain and and then to see like just like stretching out a hand and we've been on the other side of that too. Like I I don't know, both are so like relatable, like you know how that feels, you know how it feels to be um to be excluded or or to exclude and yeah, or being in a vulnerable moment and having someone like willing to extend a hand or show kindness, it's a lot, yeah, it means so much, and yeah, that kindness is just it was very well portrayed, I think, in the movie and yeah, um in the story in general. I think it's a really it's really well done.

SPEAKER_00:

I think so too. And I've seen the play, but to be fair, I was like 12, so like I remember the general story, but some of it I was like, what is this? So like it didn't really mean too much, but like as an adult and like seeing these things and having a little bit more like life experience and like also actually paying attention to the story, not just like not just the beautiful color. I want to be the prince.

SPEAKER_03:

I hope he ends up with the pretty girl.

SPEAKER_00:

Who cares about project?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No, yeah, as an adult seeing like the like the underlying messages and everything, and like you're you're rooting for goodness more than just yeah, whatever your little kid brain is doing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but um yeah, I mean it's really interesting. And it's interesting to see how like she changes and how she shows kindness and she develops this friendship and then she starts like sending up for her for her new friend. But it is interesting at that at the end, like popularity was still more than.

SPEAKER_03:

Conformity was still the is still like it's such a huge um part of all of us, I think that it's just like it kind of takes over even even and that's like the beauty, like what I love about the writing is that like the the character's progression isn't linear, you know. There's like you see some progress and then kind of falls and then a little bit more and then falls, you know, and it's just life.

SPEAKER_00:

That's just how it is, yeah. That is yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I mean there's like little moments that are portrayed really well, I think. I mean, especially like specifically for Glinda towards the end, like the I always forget her name, Morable or Which one? The teacher. I forget Oh, I don't know. Whatever. She had she's been horrible to Glinda the whole movie, like very much to her face, like you're inadequate, not impressed by you, all these things. And then at the end, when she sees that Alpha has like turned on the wizard, she like turns to Glinda. I can't remember exactly what she says, but she turns to Glinda and basically like You have to do this. Yeah, like essentially you have to do this, like I we always believed in you. Yeah, like it's you now, you know? Yeah, and it's so interesting how like you can see in her face, like Glinda very quickly accepts that, like, oh okay. It's the approval that's yeah, this person I've been seeking approval from this person, even though they've been terrible to me this entire time. I've now received that validation, so I'm gonna cling to that, even though Aflib is the one that's been on by her side and has been actually a friend to her. And um, and even her the entire time being like, Well, listen to the wizard, we need to listen to him, we need to follow what he's saying. Well, he probably has a good reason, like he knows what to do, and yeah, not being willing to even ask any questions and just very like quickly accepting like authority in her life. Um it's just very interesting. I can't wait to talk about the second part because the second part has like more character growth in a lot of ways, too. But yeah, it's just interesting to see that. And yeah, like I said, we've all been on I think both sides of it, and I think I mean I've definitely had a hard time like questioning authority, and like that feeling of like wanting to be accepted is so strong, and like yeah, feeling like you're a part of a community, feeling like you're you know doing what's expected of you. Um, it's hard to be the person to rock the boat, especially I mean, especially as women, I feel like we're told all the time, like keep the peace, yeah, for other people's sake.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, totally, and finding like finding where those two sides merge, um it's hard, it's a hard like balance and it's a hard thing to be able to balance. Um but you know what one thing I did learn while I was like looking things up? I didn't and I don't know if this is like so dumb of me for to not have known this, but um Wicked is actually a novel that's like a whole book, yeah, which I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I thought it was just like I learned recently too, I didn't know. Yeah, the play I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03:

I I thought it was just like yeah, somebody made the musical after like The Wizard of Oz, but yeah, no, it's a whole and I think it's a maybe a little bit darker the novel.

SPEAKER_00:

From what I heard, it's very kinky and darker.

SPEAKER_03:

Really?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know too much about it.

SPEAKER_03:

But I didn't hear about the kinky. That makes me immediately interested.

unknown:

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00:

Audience reached. I can't even remember where or who told me about it. Um, it might have been my sister. I can't remember. Someone was telling me that their kid was really interested in Wicked because of the movie and wanted to read the book, but they either read it or the mom read it first, or they read reviews or I can't remember fully the situation, but they just said it's like completely inappropriate for kids to read it. It's like very dark, very sexual. I don't know. So actually that's all all I know is what this person told me. I haven't like really looked into it myself, but yeah, I've heard it's different.

SPEAKER_03:

Um I uh what I saw, and I haven't read the book, but what I saw was one of the the intentions of the author was to take this like the world of Oz, and which is like so childish, right? It's like it's made for kids and it's like yeah, everything about it is just like childlike and offer like the the villain origin story make it a lot more like an adult world.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Which I think even those two comparisons is it's like really interesting. Where when you're you're like coming into a society and it's everything is just seems very like surface and very simple and very like clean cut, but once you like look into a specific person's background, it's a lot more complex, yeah, and there's a lot more nuance and all those things.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I definitely feel like it makes it so much more interesting and so much like to talk about, to watch, and all like and all of that, because it's you're seeing the same types of scenarios in a total different like place, and and it's like not a real place, obviously, but like they're it's still very common for humans to have these experiences wherever you are, yeah. So it's interesting to see kind of how they portray that. Yeah, the struggle politically, like the propaganda, how they turn on alphabet because you didn't comply. It's very interesting, and how like people will blindly follow a leader anywhere because it's comfortable, yeah. Like you feel like you have the answer, and it's like so applicable to so many, like politically, like religiously, the in so many different things in our lives. Um really in anything, like it could be in a school, in any type of setting, there's always like a leadership structure in place, and you know, a lot of the times they breed that culture of like this is what it is, you can't really question it.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's and it's so much like it's easier, it's safer, there's like intellectually safer um to just conform. Yeah. Right? And so there are these like pros to it. There is a sense of s uh safety is the best word I can think of when you do conform that you don't really get when you don't, which I think is that contrast too is so interesting. That if you're gonna question things and if you're gonna go against the grain, um life is gonna be harder.

SPEAKER_00:

But it I mean that, but more than that, too, is like it's never qu comfortable for everybody because some people are uncomfortable. Like in the world today, in the story, some people have the privilege of getting to comply and have nothing change for them, but some people are not having that same experience like the animals, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's uh that's I like that observation. The and and then that's also the key, I feel like, is so prominent. It's always been prominent, right? And I think and so and it's prominent today where just propaganda, you know, where you can take a group of people and villainize them um to everybody else and make yourself come out as like a hero, you know, the w which is what the wizard is doing. And once and then so he does that with the the animals, and then and it's his magic trick, right?

SPEAKER_00:

It's like look over here, not over here, because he doesn't have magic, so he's trying to distract from that. Yeah, so focus on the enemy, focus on this thing. It's really interesting, and uh a lot of people do that, yeah. Like trying to distract you like not to be like deep guy for conspiracy, but honestly, in the this day and age, a lot of conspiracy things are it's true.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, yeah, it's crazy because yeah, conspiracies. I feel like uh sometimes people equate conspiracy to being um false, like conspiracy equals like crazy, yeah, not true, where like far-fetched, far fetched. Honestly, sometimes it is, but that's not like conspiracy is just kind of um believing that there's something else going on, you know? Yeah, and um yeah, I feel like it happens so much today. You get on social media and like nobody even knows what to believe or where to look because or who to believe, I guess, because politics are just all over the place and everything feels that way sometimes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I mean, just like we were talking about people having being multifaceted, it's the same thing for any situation ever. There's multiple sides to a story, there's yeah, a ton of context that we might be missing. So yeah, I feel like yeah, conspiracies have gotten kind of a bad rap, but at the same time, it's like it's just also looking at a situation from a different perspective or in a different way, yeah. Which a lot of the times end up being relevant because there are multiple sides.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's like it's acknowledging that there might be more to the story, right? That there there could be multiple truths. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I d I I do love the complexity of Wicked, and I think that's why it's so successful, is because it's so there's so many different angles to look at the story. And it sort of s um it didn't I know it it wasn't the original like villain origin story, but I think it did give momentum to that genre um that we see so much now because it just started off with wanting to give the wicked witch of the west like a a background.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um the other thing I think is really interesting, I was talking to Josh about this recently, I can't remember how it started, but um it's something we've been saying a lot at home, which sounds maybe dumb, but how like no one is the villain in their own story, yeah. Like nobody, like, whenever we look at a situation or we have something annoying happen, it's like that person doesn't think that they're the villain, and everyone's a hero in their story, so like what do we think happened that led them to make that decision? Because in his head he's right, yeah, so like why does he think that? Because then it helps you understand other people better and also not react like so much to things all the time. Like, I feel like your patience and your energy, like it's currency, right? Like, if you're always spending it, you never have it, yeah, pretty much. So, like giving people the benefit of the doubt and trying to see things from different perspectives and understanding, like 99% of the time, they're not the fill-in in their story, so like, why what led them to make that decision? I think it's helpful to like just also give yourself peace, like giving them a backstory of like this is why this happened, and this is not gonna let it affect me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it can't be a problem, it's his. It can really ease your emotions, it it like depersonalizes it, right? It makes it so it's like okay, it's not about me, it's about whatever's like going on in the like the whole picture, right? Um, I think yeah, that's really wise is to to think like that. It's kind of interesting. Which which is funny because I had the same like conversation with Jeff this this week too, where we were talking it just about like most of the time people think they have good intentions.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um so I well I don't remember our conversation, but it was like I was trying to excuse something somebody did by saying like no, they had like good intentions, but it just like didn't go the way that they that that it that they intended, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And we just kind of got into that that debate.

SPEAKER_00:

But um and I mean it doesn't excuse everything, right? I mean another thing I saw recently, I can't even remember where like I read it somewhere or something or someone had said it. I my memory doesn't work, like I have no whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. I wish I had a photographic memory.

SPEAKER_00:

I know me too. I like I remember the important parts, I guess, not the source, which is not great. So maybe this is a made of by somebody, or I heard it at the grocery store.

SPEAKER_01:

She made it up.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe I made it up. I heard it in the dream. This person was saying, um, I forgot what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03:

So much buildup.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I know um what were we talking about?

SPEAKER_03:

Let's refresh your memory. Um good intentions, good intentions, excuses.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Um I can't remember exactly how they phrase it, so I'm kind of gonna butcher it. But um an entry level essentially um to like emotional intelligence is being able to do that. Look at somebody and think there's more to your background, there's more to your story, there's a reason why you did what you did. And a higher level of emotional intelligence is being able to do that while also not accepting bad behavior from people and setting good boundaries. I think I even told you about this the other day because I had heard it somewhere and I thought it was interesting, but because like you can someone can treat me so poorly, and I can look at them and understand why they did the things that they did, but doesn't mean I have to accept that behavior or keep it in my life at all. I can give them grace and then give them the boobs space.

SPEAKER_01:

You give them grace, you give them space.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Um, like it's still totally acceptable to do that, but it is I think it it is a good skill to be able to look into things and pick it apart, and like I really I know that sometimes looking at the news and looking online and whatever the freak, like it makes us think like, oh my gosh, the world is filled with terrible people and I want out.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But I do think that there's more good people than bad. Like, I think most people are good, most people want to do good things. Well, most people want to have a good life, they want to have good relationships. Like, that's I mean, I don't have the stats on it, but I think most people feel that way. Yeah, most people want to be perceived as good as good, they want to be good, they see a you know, a movie or whatever where someone's the hero, they want to be that person, yeah. Like it feels good to be that person more than just from like what people see you as, but like you have peace with yourself because you're that person. I feel like most people want that. Um, and with that being the case, I feel like we should give people more grace and like try to understand them. And of course, there's personalities that are not in a mesh, relationships that are not healthy, all those things are valid. You don't have to be in bad situations whatsoever. But I think that's like more hopeful way to look at the world. It's like someone did this bad thing, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad person, yeah. They could be in a bad place, they could have had a bad like childhood, bad background, someone did things to them, whatever it is, you know, and so I think it makes you kind of understand the world a little bit better. Like it's not black and white. Most of the time there's nuance to things, most of the time there's the exception, you know, it's just like something to have in mind, I think, that's helpful.

SPEAKER_03:

I I think about it a lot as going from like a you can have a two-dimensional perspective of something where you're really only getting one view, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then you can have like a more of a three-dimensional perspective where you're going and like you can you can see like the outside and you can see over and under and you can you can like go into the scene more and yeah, um, and accept that that is that is how the world works. There's a lot more going on than what we even know, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I mean this is like a random thing to say, maybe, but I feel like being online or watching the news or whatever, there's always like a population that gets like melodized, whoever it is on whatever side they are. It's like we hate them, these people are bad people, or give them like a you know, um, stereotype attach it to them and assume that everybody's that way or whatever it is, and that like it's not black and white, it's just so frustrating. I feel like I have conversations with people sometimes and I hear that, and I feel like I've been that person because I thought that's how it worked. I don't know, like give I don't know, there's so many different ways to look at it. Like, if you're Christian, you're good, if you're not, you're bad. If you're like from this like part of the world, you're good, from if you're from this other part, you're bad, whatever it is, and it's just so like I don't know. At the end of the day, whoever, whatever created us, it was we all get from the same place, we all look alike, we're the same, we're the same species, yeah. And we gotta find a way to get along, like yeah, you know, on some level, yeah. Um I don't know. There I know that's I don't know, it gets it's gonna get maybe too deep or whatever. But like these wars and all this nonsense, all these things happening, so much noise so insane. It's like at the end of the day, everyone wants to like live their life, everyone wants to like be with their family, their friends, their loved ones. People just want to do, you know, and I feel like there's a very loud, smaller group of people that again is very loud, so it feels like it's most people, but it's not, and they're the ones out there fighting these wars and creating this chaos.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and you know what's crazy, and I just thought of this. It's like it's usually the people who are in, and this is in by no means like a direct attack on any specific person, but I think that just in general, like, um the people who gain power are the most divisive of the people, you know, and so it like and that's what generates that. When I think you're you're totally right. I think most of us would be very happy living in like a small community, like a village of just like-minded people and and just do good and be good and help and and live your life, you know, but yeah, we get involved into these like massive um just like divisive tactics, and then it's um and I understand the need for b like uh um protection in certain things, right? But um yeah, it gets to a point where it's just a real problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And look, we started this whole thing saying we're not hippie, but here we are. But I think it I mean it is, it's like greed, power, control ruins, everything. I feel like most people just want to live their lives and like don't want this madness, and like what's like what's the point of trying to control other people? Can't we just like obviously pass like obviously there's laws that should be common everywhere? We can't kill people, we can't, whatever, you know, there's a a bunch of things that are very relevant. But to like keep as general rules of like those things will 99.99% of the time not be justifiable unless it's like self-defense or whatever, but yeah, someone else initiates or whatever, you know, there's scenarios, but like most of the time it's not something that should be happening at all. We can agree on those things, I think mostly everyone. But other things like religion, like even like certain the ways that you want to live your life. Some people are more conservative, some people are more liberal, whatever. Like, can we just like you do your thing, I do my thing, we don't kill anybody? Yeah, we don't beat anyone up, we're not stealing from each other, not being bad. We get jobs, we help people that can't, and we just keep on kicking. Like, can we do that?

SPEAKER_03:

Like Is it too much to ask?

SPEAKER_00:

Honestly, I yeah, and I know it's like idealistic or whatever, but it I really doesn't make sense to me. It's like can't we just like do our thing and like keep it moving? You know? There's just like so much drama and so much yelling and so much like villainizing the other side and in like both politically and like religiously and Like this competition, everything is this thing of like we're better, you're better, like I'm tired. Like, just yeah, and I I get I am that person too. I'll get online and I'll listen to political things and then I'll get pissed and mad at everyone all the time. And then but I don't want that either because it's like I'm gonna live my life like I said, it's like it's currency, I'm wasting it just being pissed and not doing anything about it. Can't we just all be like normal and like live our lives without hold hands and sing kumbaya? You know, or or a different song you'd like, because you can, yeah. Because there's options, there's options, or you can hold hands and say in silence, or you can not hold hands because you can just stand there. You can just stand there.

SPEAKER_03:

We're an inclusive people, you can just do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00:

I will I really just don't get it. Like it's so exhausting, and it like trying to take rights away, or trying to enforce things, or trying to like say these people are better than these people, it's just so like why are we doing this? It's so ridiculous. Like, what's the point? Yeah, and like and then we die, cool, and then that's what you did. That's the story that you left behind, yeah. Just being like intolerant of people or just being whatever and or trying to be controlling, like, like, isn't the point just being a good person? I feel like being a good person is probably not trying to control, it's trying to like foster relationships and then hope that things turn out okay. Yeah, so I don't know. Maybe I am hippie. I'm gonna go back to that sound bath while I'll teach it.

SPEAKER_03:

I think you should just accept the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00:

I I need to embrace it.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna get a showering. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I don't know if I can do that. I need that, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe I'll be no more shaving.

SPEAKER_03:

I get itchy, I can't do that either. The me after we just talked about stereotyping.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. Uh yeah. Look, I think takeaways are just just be a good person.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Assume good. Because most people are good or trying to be good. Or like to understand, ask questions and don't waste your energy unnecessarily. Dough things are gonna happen in life, tragedies happen, and you're gonna need your energy for that stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and I think that like a good way to preserve your energy is like go into conversations not trying to convince people, but trying to understand them. You know, and a lot of the time in that process of trying to understand them, and obviously bringing your thoughts and your opinions in a respectful way to the conversation as well, but the more you're able to do that, truly the more convincing you'll be, even. Um and and the more convinced you will be about something as well. It's like an open-mindedness that um generates good conversation, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I agree. I like there's nothing wrong in having like strong beliefs and strong stances on things, but I think there's also a lot of power into being open to information. If there's new data to be analyzed, like that's relevant.

SPEAKER_03:

And being able to communicate those thoughts and those ideas without overpowering something, you know, without being so yeah, and and without being so certain that you're right, you know, like have a little have a little bit of doubt. The most I know, the less I know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm like, I actually don't know yet. And that's what they're doing. We're just trying.

SPEAKER_03:

There have been so many times that I've been come into like a conversation with really anybody where I'm like, like, I know what I'm talking about. And then the more I talk to that person who is like having a respectful conversation with me, I'm like, wait, I don't actually know like wait, there is so much what's happening, and and it like shakes your world a little bit for sure because it does make you step outside of this like realm of this paradigm of what you think you know, um, but it can also bring it can expand what you think you know, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And look, some people are gonna say this is a silly little musical. It's super interesting. I honestly haven't like watched a movie in a little while where like it made me think so much about things. I feel like it's so well.

SPEAKER_03:

I think anybody who says it's just a musical is missing the point a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like it's so relevant today today's society, honestly. Like there's so many things that are so relevant to things that are happening currently, and it's like and in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_03:

I know we we touched a lot on like the propaganda and like the self-development and that kind of thing, but there's even so much more that goes into um just like uh on Alphabet's side at least, there's like the activism that she goes through and um and even facing being going from being somebody who's trying to help a situation to becoming the person who's then villainized for it. Um yeah, there's just so many threads that you can grab and you can take and pull from from the story.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Yeah. Yeah, it it's so interesting. And uh I keep catching myself on to talk about the second one. I won't I'll get into it, but there's interesting points there too.

SPEAKER_03:

But yeah, it's I'm I'm planning on watching it this week.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03:

Wait, am I? No, I'm planning on watching another movie this week. But I will get to Wicked.

SPEAKER_00:

Whenever we do, we'll have some more points to touch on, but yeah, no, there's so many sides, it's interesting, and I think it's it's interesting to you, like even online seeing people go like, well, Glinda has been the villain all along, or Uphaba's the villain, or whatever the freak all along, and it's just like I don't know, again, also not to like try to seem like I I know the answer is they don't. But like it's like they're they both are in different ways.

SPEAKER_03:

Like yeah, there's just there's again it's like that three-dimensional viewer, like you can see it this way and you can see it that way, and you can see it yeah all yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And this doesn't it's gonna be portrayed better in the second part, but I think another part that's kind of interesting too is um Glinda, like they show her as like not having powers, you know. But it is interesting too how like popularity can help too if you're trying to make a change. If you're not likable or like which is sound sounds bad, but like if you're not like palatable to people, they're less likely to be willing to like hear a message from you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, I'm gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

And so she does have a power there, like she's not using it, right? Like, she's not using it for good, actually, but like she is like popular, people do like her influence, yeah, yeah exactly. She does have that reach for people, and for better or worse, and I mean there's so many different routes we could take with this too, but like she looks the part or whatever, like she is standing next to people that have been part of you know, have been in power that people are used to seeing. She becomes that familiar face because she doesn't rock the boat, she becomes like a familiar, like calming presence almost because she is so like bland, but like if I feel like at times that can be a good tactic in the beginning to get the audience, and then you can slowly persuade them in different ways. Um this is like kind of a tangent. I don't even know how long we've been talking, but and this is this might take it somewhere else, I don't know. But you know how like a lot of people talk about how like celebrities have a responsibility to talk about certain issues and whatnot, and I feel like that's true in a lot of ways, like they have privilege, they have the reach, you know, they should probably help keep people informed. Um they're not like experts on topics, but if there are big issues happening that we need to call attention to and get a movement, whatever, they can definitely do that. I feel like it's important to do that because they're in that position. But I thought it was there was like this interview with Jennifer Lawrence recently where someone was asking her about that, and she said, I have been very opinionated like politically with people, like out in the media, and it caused people to completely rule me like out, basically. They don't want to hear from me because they know the way that I think, and I am more passionate now about staying a little bit more silent in that sense and present my ideas through the projects I'm a part of because by storytelling I can help people change their minds in a better way, in a more palatable way, than if I'm just in their face saying that they're wrong and trying to get them to hear me out.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I thought that was so interesting because it's a way to use that popular popularity and that influence to be palatable enough that they can hear it, but also push a message enough that make people think and make people like become become more empathetic and become kinder to other people. And I thought that was really interesting, yeah. Um, and I think that's a power that like yeah, Glenda has. Yeah, enough of it because she's so assertive, it's harder to connect with her, I guess I think.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Um, I I know it's like a debate of how should people use their platform for anything other than what they've been put there for? You know, like should a celebrity step outside of their role of just acting or singing or whatever, or or sports or whatever it is. Um and and I think that like what you said is it you're given a platform, and I think that you should use it however you see fit and and working through projects, it is like um you're using that power that you have, but you're also not like trying to make your whole image about it too, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we're done.

SPEAKER_03:

You can get disagreed with me.

SPEAKER_00:

Still for a second. Um but yeah, I mean, I agree. I think that's interesting because yes, it might be easier for people to accept it, and I think it's a good point, because yeah, like through storytelling they might relate to it. Some people might have like disagreed with like protecting minorities or whatever the freak. But then they watch Wicked and they're like, why is this happening? This is not fair. And it's like, hey, wait a minute. Yeah. It applies to a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. It's it just yeah, and again, it gives people more context. Like it puts it it gives them opportunity to see things in a different way that doesn't feel so close to home sometimes. It's not personal, it's just like people. It's like, especially when it's like the world of wicked, um, it's animals, and it's kind of seems a little bit silly, these talking animals and whatever, but yeah, it does make you think, and it's like, wait, we do have situations in the real world that um that are very much like talking animals, you know?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um anyway. But very interesting. Very interesting. Wicked is it's it's I really like it. I really like it for the depth and I like the musical for it the the depth goes so deep where it's not just like the themes, but it's also the the beauty of the storytelling and how it how it happens. I really like it.

SPEAKER_00:

I do too. I'll say I don't cry very often in movies, but I've cried in both so far.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh trigger two. I'm I'm very excited to watch the second one.

SPEAKER_00:

Well we will cover it then talk about it more. Thank you for joining us for another episode of The Stays Between Us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

See you next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Bye.